Subject	Anecdotal stories do not equal PROOF.
Posted by	SeedyROM on February 09, 2006 at 4:05 PM
	This message has been viewed 72 times.
In Reply To	WRONG. It is the combination of the two. posted by Ash's Z on February 09, 2006 at 03:40 PM
Message	I'd be much, MUCH more inclined to say that JWTs turbos had a problem or that the tolerances were not up to spec than the exhaust is even a part of the cause. And you know how much I love their turbos (and will still buy a set). I can't believe you, of all people, are buying this hook, line and sinker. Do you not realize these guys SELL TURBOS and it's in their best interests to explain away smoking issues as something beyond their control? They have zero evidence other than something that sounds really good on paper. I wont even go so far as to say Jim is out of line but you, again of all people, buying into it so hard and riding their coattails is just...ironic =) Go ahead and infect your sheep. There's nothing I can do to stop it. In fact, here's a golden opportunity to come up with the "Ashspec Backpressure Thingamajig". $$$$! "If I'm an asshole it's only because I've been turned into one by the sheer amount of stupid people and stupid logic that dominate Twinturbo.net today." My Zs: www.zheaven.com - Pics and information about both of my 300ZXs. Member: www.SoCalZCrew.com - Come find out how we do it in the West!
Follow Ups	Had an interesting 30-minute phone conversation with - Ash's Z 14:00:51 02/09/06 Thank you! (n/m) - NytWolf 14:10:29 02/09/06 but parts dont fail due to a bad tune or detonation right? - genic 14:14:38 02/09/06 As Jim put it, "Turbos are full of VooDoo". - Ash's Z 14:21:06 02/09/06 So basically the problem lies with the turbos, not the - Guapo 14:23:02 02/09/06 Correct, but when it is your car, you own both the turbos - Ash's Z 14:24:28 02/09/06 Correct, but when it is your car, you own both the tires - Kenny 14:43:48 02/09/06 *yawn* (n/m) - dpjax 14:55:53 02/09/06 so it's a crap shoot? (n/m) - Spee 14:23:03 02/09/06 If you win money when it doesn't smoke, then I guess so. - Ash's Z 14:25:19 02/09/06 I just have a hard time believing that turbos... - Spee 14:45:10 02/09/06 maybe u should believe what you "read off of the internet" - The Devils Z 17:13:20 02/09/06 um...right - Spee 17:22:17 02/09/06 who said anything about "discover" ? ..I'll be the first - The Devils Z 17:37:01 02/09/06 Evidently: - Dustin 14:33:29 02/09/06 So where should the gap be, and why dont they put it there? (n/m) - TomzxTT 14:36:33 02/09/06 It's free-floating - mattztt 14:55:17 02/09/06 guess i got the good voodoo - genic 14:55:54 02/09/06 One word, tolerances. Basic manufacturing. (n/m) - CaliguyPurdue 14:41:35 02/09/06 New math? (n/m) - Kenny 15:24:14 02/09/06 new math RUINED me - genic 15:29:30 02/09/06 No basic... - CaliguyPurdue 15:38:15 02/09/06 1=3? I agree that's basic, but not so correct. (n/m) - Kenny 15:55:29 02/09/06 I'm just about out of that stuff. (n/m) - Ash's Z 15:43:30 02/09/06 2nd. my return is under oil level, open exhaust, no smoke (n/m) - dogpile 17:35:38 02/09/06 is there any problem with turbos leaking oil? - BigTDogg (MA) 14:18:55 02/09/06 so how come my turbos don't smoke? - Spee 14:21:45 02/09/06 Re: so how come my turbos don't smoke? - Ash's Z 14:22:04 02/09/06 Re: It's a shame that you feel the need to "validate">> - racer2fst 14:27:10 02/09/06 Yes, you are entertaining. (n/m) - Spongerider :) 14:32:24 02/09/06 you explained this to me when my stock turbos started - ZEngineer 14:37:45 02/09/06 Condensation will have a similar effect. - Kenny 14:46:29 02/09/06 most likely oil - ZEngineer 14:51:34 02/09/06 Indeed. - Kenny 14:53:02 02/09/06 how old is your exhaust? - Spee 14:49:41 02/09/06 Re: 5 years old and when the turbos were removed - BADASSTT 14:53:30 02/09/06 Water is a byproduct of combustion, so thats possible. (n/m) - Kenny 14:55:26 02/09/06 the exhaust is pretty old - ZEngineer 14:58:21 02/09/06 have you dyno tuned your setup? (n/m) - EricTTZ 19:30:12 02/09/06 no, the car has been sleeping for the last 6 months - ZEngineer 08:28:42 02/10/06 Re:I cant believe I changed my turbochargers - BADASSTT 14:45:50 02/09/06 so basically your screwed either way? - blacktwin 14:51:34 02/09/06 Re: basically you are. - BADASSTT 14:56:49 02/09/06 no you wouldn't have, you simply would have delayed the - Spee 14:56:29 02/09/06 Varios combinations? - Jmartz 14:56:30 02/09/06 it depends on the current condition of the turbos. - Spee 15:00:26 02/09/06 Are you saying that - Jmartz 15:05:02 02/09/06 He's saying that it REVEALS worn turbos (n/m) - mattztt 15:07:52 02/09/06 the issue IS the worn turbos. - Spee 15:10:32 02/09/06 Worn or shoddy new turbos - SeedyROM 15:14:34 02/09/06 I would have to agree. My turbos "were fine" until I put - Waco300zx 15:12:56 02/09/06 Another data point - mattztt 15:02:15 02/09/06 ah, well i feel a little better about it now, my turbos have - blacktwin 15:12:37 02/09/06 So does this apply to new turbos? Or just old? - Waco300zx 15:10:15 02/09/06 all turbos - genic 15:16:19 02/09/06 It applies to turbos. (n/m) - Kenny 15:17:49 02/09/06 That's the "VooDoo" part of the whole issue. - Ash's Z 15:46:01 02/09/06 Understood. Either way, if I smoke or not, I'll be needing a - Waco300zx 15:50:52 02/09/06 The main reason there wont be a concensus on this is - Ash's Z 16:03:20 02/09/06 Indeed, too bad you can't see JWT is a part of that as well - SeedyROM 16:15:31 02/09/06 Oh wait, you did it already>>> - SeedyROM 16:24:31 02/09/06 So is that what this is all about? - Ash's Z 16:40:25 02/09/06 Asking questions you already know the answer to = avoidance - SeedyROM 16:45:58 02/09/06 Seedy, what you cannot see through your blinding rage - Ash's Z 17:32:34 02/09/06 Shrug, I was quite civil and calm. - SeedyROM 17:47:42 02/09/06 lol, blinding rage... (n/m) - Turbodog (CT) 22:28:02 02/09/06 Hah, yeah - maybe not the best choice of words. ;-) (n/m) - Ash's Z 23:47:32 02/09/06 CLIFFNOTES: It's the turbos, not the exhaust components. - SeedyROM 15:17:39 02/09/06 WRONG. It is the combination of the two. - Ash's Z 15:40:00 02/09/06 you really accept that as a valid explanation? - Spee 15:53:35 02/09/06 I think everything I have said up to this point is - Ash's Z 16:05:20 02/09/06 I'm not shooting anyone - Spee 16:17:50 02/09/06 Yeah, I did stir that pot - SeedyROM 16:21:43 02/09/06 truth (n/m) - Spee 17:01:00 02/09/06 lol ! Delivery boy - Russell@Z1 16:22:30 02/09/06 and I'm sure you never thought of how it might send customer - Waco300zx 16:30:20 02/09/06 Relax, I'm just kidding. I'm not even taking sides. - Russell@Z1 16:33:22 02/09/06 Anecdotal stories do not equal PROOF. - SeedyROM 16:05:58 02/09/06 You just dont seem to understand and I'm pretty much - Ash's Z 16:14:45 02/09/06 I understand big statements with zero proof - SeedyROM 16:19:43 02/09/06 Well, instead of me trying to prove it to you, how about - Ash's Z 16:26:03 02/09/06 Sure - SeedyROM 16:37:17 02/09/06 my car smoked for no reason when I gutted the - The Devils Z 17:26:44 02/09/06 You show your ignorance in your last line... - SeedyROM 18:00:20 02/09/06 those have been out on the market for a while. but im sure - Halo Z 20:03:05 02/09/06 This is kind of like a weird negative space universe. - Russell@Z1 16:07:17 02/09/06 Seriously (n/m) - SeedyROM 16:12:48 02/09/06 You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that JWT's - Ash's Z 16:35:48 02/09/06 No problem, it just came across a little different. - Russell@Z1 16:46:41 02/09/06 There seems to be a misunderstanding about what I'm saying. - Ash's Z 17:42:13 02/09/06 Sounds reasonable to me (n/m) - Russell@Z1 18:21:26 02/09/06 You still havent stoped picking Jim/Clarks brains have you? - Eishozzzz 15:20:36 02/09/06 The call to Jim wasn't because I wasn't sure - it was simply - Ash's Z 15:51:20 02/09/06 Right, Jim said the turbo seals were the problem. (n/m) - Kenny 15:57:57 02/09/06 Well, Yes/No. It is the combination of turbo design and - Ash's Z 16:10:44 02/09/06 you are an excellent salesman (n/m) - dogpile 17:34:04 02/09/06 I can't wait for the new vario-flow exhaust! (n/m) - Kenny 17:44:15 02/09/06 new? apexi's had it out for awhile - dogpile 18:06:03 02/09/06 as have others (n/m) - Halo Z 20:14:46 02/09/06 Dont expect it. I'd rather keep it to myself than deal with - Ash's Z 18:08:38 02/09/06 Total crap IMO - common sense and emperical evidence says >> - ztunerz 19:25:59 02/09/06 JWT says this only applies to OEM and JWT turbos due - The Devils Z 21:39:46 02/09/06 I think you are misunderstanding me a bit Harry.. - Ash's Z 23:46:34 02/09/06 cats serve to help with emmissions right... - pilotgod404 00:25:19 02/10/06 You might be on to something there, I can't belive - Turbodog (CT) 07:39:52 02/10/06 good - i wanted your opinion on it >> - ztunerz 08:57:03 02/10/06
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